Lets talk turbos

[Dzchey21]

Ok so we know that elite has modded stock turbo's

We also know that elite is working on a set of "big" twins.

How big of a single would it take to make lets say 700 ish on fuel? And possibly not be TOO laggy and still tow... is it even possible?

[BFT]

im curious to see how this turbo set up on the new 6.7 will hold up and how much power you can throw at it?
i would think with a ball bearing turbo and a wastegate like the new setups should take away from some lag on a larger set up...maybe a BOV to release pressure so the turbo can spool up a bit faster?
my experience on turbos are with gas motors so i dont know how much different it will be comparing to the diesel

[goodstktbo]

Will there be 2 chargers on the 6.7's?

[STROKIN N STYLE]

Originally Posted by goodstktbo

Will there be 2 chargers on the 6.7's?

No the 6.7 is a single turbo. Pretty cool design too.


Look at the d-maxs Dustin, how big of a single can they run?

[BFT]

thats the new 6.7 set up

[smokyred]

Originally Posted by goodstktbo

Will there be 2 chargers on the 6.7's?

Just one turbo, but it will have 2 compressor wheels on a single shaft.

Dave

[Dzchey21]

Originally Posted by STROKIN N STYLE

No the 6.7 is a single turbo. Pretty cool design too.


Look at the d-maxs Dustin, how big of a single can they run?

Thanks scotty didnt think of that

TO everyone else please try to keep it on topic....

[tons0torque]

You could probably get close to 700 with a 64" inducer turbo. Would love to see a gt42r 53 trim on the 6.4.

[BFT]

Originally Posted by tons0torque

You could probably get close to 700 with a 64" inducer turbo. Would love to see a gt42r 53 trim on the 6.4.

how much boost can that set up handle?

[Dzchey21]

Originally Posted by tons0torque

You could probably get close to 700 with a 64" inducer turbo. Would love to see a gt42r 53 trim on the 6.4.

I have thought about a GT42...

A buddy of mine has a 64mm turbo off of a duramax thats ball bearing, i might try something with that....

[tons0torque]

A GT4094 hybrid would crush 700 on one of these engines.

[tons0torque]

Originally Posted by Dzchey21

I have thought about a GT42...

A buddy of mine has a 64mm turbo off of a duramax thats ball bearing, i might try something with that....

Makes for a good start to a killer twin setup.

[Dzchey21]

my buddy has a gt42r with a 1.15 exhaust housing...going to go take a look at it tonight along with the dmax turbo.

[bigrpowr]

a gt4202 should be capable of 750rwhp based on its performance on a dmax. the heads on the 6.4 may need some work to equal that.

the elite setup has already made just shy of 700 (fuel only) on the test mule.... i hope to be testing these shortly as well.

[Dzchey21]

Originally Posted by bigrpowr

a gt4202 should be capable of 750rwhp based on its performance on a dmax. the heads on the 6.4 may need some work to equal that.

the elite setup has already made just shy of 700 (fuel only) on the test mule.... i hope to be testing these shortly as well.

if i could get 700 i would be happy, what about towing ect, out of the question?

[bigrpowr]

Originally Posted by Dzchey21

if i could get 700 i would be happy, what about towing ect, out of the question?

i believe it would tow excellent ... twins help that..now a single..forget about it.

[Dzchey21]

so what about a gt42 and a modded stock high pressure turbo

[bigrpowr]

i believe the elite setup is similar to that, using a 76mm primary and a aftermarket VGT....

if i can have 700 on fuel and good towing...done.

[BFT]

how much boost are we talkin here to get up to 700+

[bigrpowr]

60 ish....

[danbonzo]

Originally Posted by tons0torque

You could probably get close to 700 with a 64" inducer turbo. Would love to see a gt42r 53 trim on the 6.4.

64 inch should move some air but the lag might make driving in traffic challanging

[Dzchey21]

Cant decide to try a 42r as a single or use it as the low pressure turbo...

[Powerstroked162]

Originally Posted by Dzchey21

Cant decide to try a 42r as a single or use it as the low pressure turbo...

I think you could make a single 42 run well in every aspect. If your goin low pressure, dont be scurred, throw a 45 at it :

[Dzchey21]

well i would by my buddy has a wastegated 42 off a detroit, going to take a look at both of his turbos today, i gotta do something!!!

[SAK]

With a complete elite built motor you will hit 700+ on just fuel.

[Dzchey21]

i dont have the 8k that it costs...

[Matt05]

I think you should set up a single, that would be rather sweet. And I figured a complete Elite motor would be more than 8k.

[sniperonhigh]

Originally Posted by bigrpowr

if i can have 700 on fuel and good towing...done.

I am going to save this quote.

[Dzchey21]

Originally Posted by Matt05

I think you should set up a single, that would be rather sweet. And I figured a complete Elite motor would be more than 8k.

Im torn right now, it would be nice to know that its going to spool good and tow well, but no one has ran a single at this point and i would like to try it as well, and i have some serious altitude to deal with, so spool up would be a good test up here. Im going back and forth right now, set up a single, if i hate it, do a 64mm something as the high pressure??? Im just saying elites turbo's, pump, injectors ect is clost to 8k no wastegate or egr delete... this is going to get pricey quick!

[BFT]

TURBO FAQ AND Info...... - IH8MUD.com


this site seems to break down the turbo as far as building your own or doing the math for it...
it can also answer any questions that most have about turbos and how they work
hope this helps!

[tons0torque]

Originally Posted by danbonzo

64 inch should move some air but the lag might make driving in traffic challanging

Opps

[danbonzo]

Originally Posted by tons0torque

Opps

Sorry I couldn't resist

[97singlecab]

Does anyone have some pics of the engine bays with the turbos out and some pics of how the turbos are setup together. Just need to get a visual of these setups since I don't have one to tear apart right now. I'm the guy with the turbos i'm trying to help dustin get a setup figured out. Dustin you need to just let me tear your truck apart and see how its all setup then we'll build some bada$$ parts Shouldn't take more than a couple months you could cruise the mustang till its done.

[Powerstroked162]

A couple months....

[97singlecab]

I was just kiddin. Hopefully dustin can have something together alot quicker than that.

[Dzchey21]

i better gregrob is gunna get me if i dont... anyway what did a 42r come on? Any big cat engines?

[powerstroke586]

here ya go

not mine by the way, i had to find a picture of a clean one on the internet haha

[PTSUPERD]

Dont know if this is helpful or not....but here is a couple pics of a 42R.





[IMG][/IMG]

[Black 08]

The other ? would be tuning like i said in my thread.sounds like it would be trial and error finding someone to take the time to get tuning rite.

[Dzchey21]

Thanks for the pics guys

Black 08 I think it will take some tuning to get right since its not vgt not sure how hard it will be

[theSLEEPER]

IMO, the right sizing and tuning on the 42, and I'd be willing to bet you could use it, and be effective. Of course there are gonna be trade-offs. But you could make it work.

[smokyred]

A 42 or a smaller S400 would be my choice. Using a T4 housing I think it would be fine. It's not a very fair comparison, but I drove around with stock AA's and an S465 with a .90 T4 housing and it was peppy and EGT's were very cool.

Dave

[BFT]

if you're going with the gt42...how will the valve train hold up?

[CobbsDieselPerformance]

I am going with the EDE turbo's as soon as I get my truck back rolling under its own power. From here on out the sky is the limit now that I got a Suncoast!

[Dzchey21]

Originally Posted by BFT

if you're going with the gt42...how will the valve train hold up?

If drive pressure is reduced, then i dont see it being any harder on it, i actually seeing it being easier on the valve train, I think i will externally gate it, so i can regulate drive pressure and/or boost pressure to around 55psi.

John, good luck man glad to see more are going to push past the 600 hp mark on fuel.

[CobbsDieselPerformance]

Originally Posted by Dzchey21

If drive pressure is reduced, then i dont see it being any harder on it, i actually seeing it being easier on the valve train, I think i will externally gate it, so i can regulate drive pressure and/or boost pressure to around 55psi.

John, good luck man glad to see more are going to push past the 600 hp mark on fuel.

Thanks now that I hit the 600 on fuel mark I now want 700 on fuel LMAO!

[BeastPowerX10]

Originally Posted by CobbsDieselPerformance

Thanks now that I hit the 600 on fuel mark I now want 700 on fuel LMAO!

dont we all

[Logan21SV]

Originally Posted by Dzchey21

i better gregrob is gunna get me if i dont... anyway what did a 42r come on? Any big cat engines?

Most 3408s 3412s in marine/natural gas applications have true twin 42rs.

[Dzchey21]

Originally Posted by Logan21SV

Most 3408s 3412s in marine/natural gas applications have true twin 42rs.

Cool going to look at some c15 turbo's tonight and see how big they are... i was looking at the 42r with the TIAL SS exhaust cover, pretty sweet set up i must say.

[Dzchey21]

The way the uppipes feed the turbo's is scary how close they are to the same thing...

[97singlecab]

Damn that is pretty close to the same.

[Dzchey21]

I know i cant find any pictures of the uppipes themselves to see if the flange is welded to the up pipe or if it moves.

[powerstroke586]

are those turbo's in the second picture off our trucks?

[Dzchey21]

yes the first and second pictures are right from ford THe last one is off PPE website for there 42r kit for the duramax, Im thinking i can make an adapter very similar to PPE and mount the GT42 inplace of the low pressure turbo, and get rid of the high pressure turbo, piping from there out looks pretty straight forward. Might even be able to use a stock style intake with a different elbow... not for sure just yet, going to dive in a little deeper tomorrow.

[BFT]

where will the position of the turbo be on the motor and will the up pipes be of similar length?

[BFT]

dont know if this might help you out some

[Dzchey21]

Originally Posted by BFT

where will the position of the turbo be on the motor and will the up pipes be of similar length?

Going off of the pictures, depends on how the mount is built and what other constraints there are under the hood, but im thinking right in the same place as the low pressure turbo thats under the hood now, or at least thats what im hoping, I plan on not modifiying the stock up pipes, just adapting whatever i need off the up pipes to an adapter.

[Dzchey21]

Looks to me like Elite is using stock up-pipes as well, and they have made some sort of an adapter to the turbo, but i cant tell from that pic but it almost looks like a modded stock high pressure turbo.

[BFT]

what about having the wastegate release the exhaust pressure from both pipes instead of one?
from the looks of the bolt patterns, 2 different flanges are made.

[Dzchey21]

you could but you really only need it to release pressure from one side but idealy you would want both sides to go through the wastegate.

[BFT]

but that would only be releasing the pressure through that cylinder head vs both, i would think?
wouldnt you want the exhaust gas from all cylinders to exit through the wastegate? it may work different for diesels rather then gas vehicles thats why im asking.

[Dzchey21]

Yeah I would think you would want it to wastegate from both sides, but it must be working fine with a single side wastegated, the only way to REALLY know is to hook two drive pressure gauges up, one too each up pipe and see what the drive pressure is like from both sides.

[powerstroke586]

Originally Posted by Dzchey21

yes the first and second pictures are right from ford THe last one is off PPE website for there 42r kit for the duramax, Im thinking i can make an adapter very similar to PPE and mount the GT42 inplace of the low pressure turbo, and get rid of the high pressure turbo, piping from there out looks pretty straight forward. Might even be able to use a stock style intake with a different elbow... not for sure just yet, going to dive in a little deeper tomorrow.

thats what i thought ha ha sounds like you got it all planned out man

[Dzchey21]

Originally Posted by powerstroke586

thats what i thought ha ha sounds like you got it all planned out man

Honestly money is the only thing holding me up at this point for the turbo itself. Once that happens i can fab most of the other stuff up and make it work, I wanna do the turbo before a pump, before injectors and before studs, Just to see if its usuable without a pump and sticks, and also to see if reducing the drive pressure takes some stress off the head gaskets, and is reliable, of course im going to have to do a wastegate and egr delete too, but one step at a time.

[BFT]

this is just my .02...
if you are planning on going to the single turbo set up, then i would get a 2 into 1 collector to flange up to new turbo set up with wastegate tube welded to the collector to release equal amount of exhaust pressure, and have to flanges made for the 2 into 1 collector to bolt up the up pipes for easy installation and or maintenence.
it would especially help alot and eliminate some of the turbo lag that would be created if you only had the wastegate on 1 up pipe. it would be painless and in the end everything would be bolt on.

[powerstroke586]

yeah stuff for these trucks are crazy expensive im hoping it works though and if so i will pay you to fab up the parts for me haha that is if its streetable. how much is the turbo setup

[BFT]

i would imagine turbo and wastegate would be the ones to break the bank, haha!!!

[Dzchey21]

Originally Posted by BFT

this is just my .02...
if you are planning on going to the single turbo set up then i would get a 2 into 1 collector to flange up to new turbo set up with wastegate tubewelded to the collector to release equal amount of exhaust pressure and have to flanges made for the 2 into 1 collector to bolt up the up pipes for easy installation and or maintenence.
it would especially help alot and eliminate some of the turbo lag that would be crerated if you only had the wastegate on 1 up pipe. it would be painless and in the end everything would be bolt on.

If i have the room thats what i will do...

Originally Posted by powerstroke586

yeah stuff for these trucks are crazy expensive im hoping it works though and if so i will pay you to fab up the parts for me haha that is if its streetable. how much is the turbo setup

The cheapest turbo i can find is around 2100 bucks just for a turbo with a 1.01 exhaust housing. Its a ball bearing so it should light pretty fast, I wont say that i will produce a kit, but i may make a few extras.

[motoxracer42]

maybe try and use an internally gated exhaust housing. i dont really know to much about garrett turbos but if you end up using a BW turbo im sure you can find a gated housing from someone. i will try and call up my friend at his turbo shop and see what housings i can find for a t4 flange. what size exhaust wheel are you guys thinking about running?

[powerstroke586]

Originally Posted by Dzchey21

If i have the room thats what i will do...


The cheapest turbo i can find is around 2100 bucks just for a turbo with a 1.01 exhaust housing. Its a ball bearing so it should light pretty fast, I wont say that i will produce a kit, but i may make a few extras.

well i dibs one haha

[Dzchey21]

Originally Posted by motoxracer42

maybe try and use an internally gated exhaust housing. i dont really know to much about garrett turbos but if you end up using a BW turbo im sure you can find a gated housing from someone. i will try and call up my friend at his turbo shop and see what housings i can find for a t4 flange. what size exhaust wheel are you guys thinking about running?

i belive a 42r is a 84mm wheel. Some of the big truck 42rs have a internally gated housing but as far as i know its journal bearing, and you have to buy it from a detroit dealer, garrett only lists non wastegated housings.

Originally Posted by powerstroke586

well i dibs one haha

we'll see how it works first, i think if i can light it pretty quick at 6000 feet that anyone should be able to run it.

[BFT]

i think for faster responce for the turbo that an external wastegate is the way to go and also being that you're aiming for big power

[powerstroke586]

yeah thats my issue too damn elevation haha. if i didnt need my truck so much i would let you test on mine

[97singlecab]

A borg werner style turbo would save on cost significantly but you can't get one that is ball bearing. I'm trying to round up a used one for you but most people with a ball bearing turbo dont' sell them.

[bigrpowr]

Originally Posted by 97singlecab

A borg werner style turbo would save on cost significantly but you can't get one that is ball bearing. I'm trying to round up a used one for you but most people with a ball bearing turbo dont' sell them.

thats what i told him.

[97singlecab]

I know you really wanna setup a good fuel only truck. But nitrous cures alot of spool up problems if we were to go with a non ball bearing cartridge. Also if you buy a journal bearing cartridge turbo and get it all mocked up you can buy a ball bearing cartridge later to swap in as they are completely interchangeable. Just some thoughts. But i'm going to bed so i'll talk to ya tomorrow.

[BFT]

is the 84mm on the 42r the inducer or the exducer size?

[bigrpowr]

Originally Posted by BFT

is the 84mm on the 42r the inducer or the exducer size?

ex .

[tons0torque]

Originally Posted by Dzchey21

yes the first and second pictures are right from ford THe last one is off PPE website for there 42r kit for the duramax, Im thinking i can make an adapter very similar to PPE and mount the GT42 inplace of the low pressure turbo, and get rid of the high pressure turbo, piping from there out looks pretty straight forward. Might even be able to use a stock style intake with a different elbow... not for sure just yet, going to dive in a little deeper tomorrow.

That's a great idea.

http://www.bullseyepower.com/seepicture.asp?b=4&bc=50

http://www.bullseyepower.com/seepicture.asp?b=5&bc=50

This is the bullseye mount for the d-max. It's only 300 bucks.

[Dzchey21]

Originally Posted by 97singlecab

A borg werner style turbo would save on cost significantly but you can't get one that is ball bearing. I'm trying to round up a used one for you but most people with a ball bearing turbo dont' sell them.

Right and i did talk to mike about that but as a single journal bearing worries me, however it might be worth trying, if it fails, move to a ball bearing cartridge turbo.

Originally Posted by 97singlecab

I know you really wanna setup a good fuel only truck. But nitrous cures alot of spool up problems if we were to go with a non ball bearing cartridge. Also if you buy a journal bearing cartridge turbo and get it all mocked up you can buy a ball bearing cartridge later to swap in as they are completely interchangeable. Just some thoughts. But i'm going to bed so i'll talk to ya tomorrow.

Towing is the other reason and since you sold your 64 that leaves me high i dry LMAO

[97singlecab]

Originally Posted by Dzchey21

Towing is the other reason and since you sold your 64 that leaves me high i dry LMAO

Sorry man but I couldn't say no to that massive stack of cash being waved in front of me.

[BFT]

how big is the inducer size on both turbos stock for the 6.4?

[Dzchey21]

Originally Posted by BFT

how big is the inducer size on both turbos stock for the 6.4?

56,65 i think

[powerstroke586]

thanks dustin me and BFT are still talkin to the dmax guys on the diesel place. they are bullheaded.

any new updates on your turbo ideas

[Dzchey21]

Im doin the 42r for sure, just need funding for the turbo and a wastegate, then its going on.

[BFT]

you should do what josh did and see how many people can contribute to the turbo project, haha!!! worth a shot...

[Dzchey21]

The only thing I am worried about is cylinder head flow, duramax's have better cylinder heads, so a single probably makes more power on a dirty than a powerstroke, but hell i will give it a shot, if it doesn't work, ill put a 64 as a bottom turbo, but im hoping to do this one time .

[powerstroke586]

right on man cant wait to see it happen. we already tried one of those for a tcm for him but it never happened hahaha

[Dzchey21]

Originally Posted by powerstroke586

right on man cant wait to see it happen. we already tried one of those for a tcm for him but it never happened hahaha

I'm excited man, I think its going to work well, but no one will know till its done, someone might beat me too it, if I could sell my damn dirt bike i would be in buisness Ill keep everyone posted and i will take alot of pictures when i do it, Im hoping to use factory up-pipes, Flo-pro down pipe, and even a factory intake if possible, and BFT im going to do like you said and put the wastegate in a single pipe before the turbo, so it relieves drive pressure on both cylinder heads, I really hope this works, I'm taking a big chance of trying something new and i dont wanna fail too bad . But i do know at this point that an full egr delete must be done to make it work. Or at least run an air filter

[bigrpowr]

if dustin is a good boy, psn might help him with a 42r ....

[powerstroke586]

Originally Posted by Dzchey21

I'm excited man, I think its going to work well, but no one will know till its done, someone might beat me too it, if I could sell my damn dirt bike i would be in buisness Ill keep everyone posted and i will take alot of pictures when i do it, Im hoping to use factory up-pipes, Flo-pro down pipe, and even a factory intake if possible, and BFT im going to do like you said and put the wastegate in a single pipe before the turbo, so it relieves drive pressure on both cylinder heads, I really hope this works, I'm taking a big chance of trying something new and i dont wanna fail too bad . But i do know at this point that an full egr delete must be done to make it work. Or at least run an air filter

that would be awesome if you could use as much stock piping as possible. what kind of dirt bike you sellin. if you fail i wont make fun of you i promise

[Powerstroked162]

Originally Posted by Dzchey21

I'm excited man, I think its going to work well, but no one will know till its done, someone might beat me too it, if I could sell my damn dirt bike i would be in buisness Ill keep everyone posted and i will take alot of pictures when i do it, Im hoping to use factory up-pipes, Flo-pro down pipe, and even a factory intake if possible, and BFT im going to do like you said and put the wastegate in a single pipe before the turbo, so it relieves drive pressure on both cylinder heads, I really hope this works, I'm taking a big chance of trying something new and i dont wanna fail too bad . But i do know at this point that an full egr delete must be done to make it work. Or at least run an air filter

Let me know when to take some time off

[powerstroke586]

Originally Posted by bigrpowr

if dustin is a good boy, psn might help him with a 42r ....

sounds like santa clause is drivin a mean green 6.4 powerstroke

[Dzchey21]

Originally Posted by powerstroke586

that would be awesome if you could use as much stock piping as possible. what kind of dirt bike you sellin. if you fail i wont make fun of you i promise

good. Its an 07 yamaha yz450

Originally Posted by Powerstroked162

Let me know when to take some time off

ok buddy

[powerstroke586]

Originally Posted by Dzchey21

good. Its an 07 yamaha yz450


ok buddy

that bike would go good with my 07 yfz450 how much

[Dzchey21]

I got it advertised for 3750... thats funny great minds think alike.

[powerstroke586]

Originally Posted by Dzchey21

I got it advertised for 3750... thats funny great minds think alike.

what if all i have is 3740 LMFAO I was thinkin the same thing i will definately think about it though i got some buddies wantin bikes too

[Dzchey21]

Cool man no worries.

[jdgleason]

Has anyone thought of modding the stock low pressure turbo? Different housings with a bigger wheel?

[Dzchey21]

Originally Posted by jdgleason

Has anyone thought of modding the stock low pressure turbo? Different housings with a bigger wheel?

Thats exactly what elites "tow compounds" are

[JD Dearden]

Originally Posted by Dzchey21

Thats exactly what elites "tow compounds" are

I tried to tell you just remember that.

[jdgleason]

I see.....