More 2003 6.0L cold starting problems

[locomike]

The glow plugs use an algorithm to calculate 'on-time'. I am attaching a FORD diagnostic bulletin that will show you how to do a simple glow plug test.

Hope it saves you some bucks !!!!!

[03StrokerF250]

Originally Posted by locomike

The glow plugs use an algorithm to calculate 'on-time'. I am attaching a FORD diagnostic bulletin that will show you how to do a simple glow plug test.

Hope it saves you some bucks !!!!!

Thanks a million! I’m going to look over the docs you sent and seen what I can learn.

I contacted the dealer again today and they said it started fine again. The problem is it was 55 degree or more as a low last night. The engine only shows problems when it below 40 degrees. They left it out overnight, not plugged in and it started fine, but again it was warm. There going to keep it tonight and see what happens tomorrow. It only going to be a low of 46 tonight, so it'll probably start fine. Just my luck it’s not cold enough now for it to be symptomatic. We'll see...

Also, I was wondering how long you guys have to/do crank on your engines with there cold and have not been plugged in to get them to start??

How long will hurt the engine/starter?

How long with drank the batteries?

How long does it take to cold start a dead cold 6.0L engine with just glow plugs in 40 and below weather??

Thanks for everything guys!

[03SVTcobra]

The glow plug light on your dash does not represent the actual glow plug on time. It only stays on until it has enough heat to start the truck based on ambient air temp. In cold start situations, the glow plugs will actually stay on for up to a minute plus after the truck has actually started.

If your EGR cooler was blown, it should not create a cold start issue and you would see a lot of white smoke from the exhaust. It is not tied in with the GPCM or the FICM (its a purely mechanical device not electrical). Also, with proper maintance (oil changes, using Motorcraft FL-2016 filter and fuel filter changes using Motorcraft FD-4604 filters - yes, Motorcraft filters make a HUGE difference....I can explain why at a later time if anyone is curious) EGR and Oil coolers rarely go bad....and the 03 almost never go bad (sometimes they do though, but usually due to very bad maintance). The EGR valve can create a crank no start, but it will be all the time, not just when cold. It can also make the truck run rough and will blow white smoke.

As for the question on how long you can crank....as long as the battery is good, you can crank on it for about 30-45 seconds without having to worry about frying the starter. If the starter starts to slow down or the noise changes, then stop and charge it...but on 2 good batteries, keep on cranking!

And for the last big question I saw, the cold start issue is probably your GPCM, however, this should have turned your check engine light on as it is considered an emission control device in the PCM. The fact that the reprogram did not help means your GPCM is probably bad. The reprogram mainly changes the programming in the FICM. It adds a heat induction strategy to the spool valve in the injector. The problem is the thick cold oil makes the spool valve stick and cause the truck to run rough or have problems when cold. By heating the spool valve up, it gets the oil right by it warmer and prevents it from sticking. As for the glow plugs, they hardly ever go bad on a 6.0L....maybe one or two, but not enough to create a crank no start when cold. You are probably 95% on the money telling them to check your GPCM....its a shame they couldnt figure that out themselves as its not hard to determine if you have access to a factory scan tool.....

Hope this helps and hopefully I was able to clear a few things up.

[03StrokerF250]

Originally Posted by 03SVTcobra

The glow plug light on your dash does not represent the actual glow plug on time. It only stays on until it has enough heat to start the truck based on ambient air temp. In cold start situations, the glow plugs will actually stay on for up to a minute plus after the truck has actually started.

If your EGR cooler was blown, it should not create a cold start issue and you would see a lot of white smoke from the exhaust. It is not tied in with the GPCM or the FICM (its a purely mechanical device not electrical). Also, with proper maintance (oil changes, using Motorcraft FL-2016 filter and fuel filter changes using Motorcraft FD-4604 filters - yes, Motorcraft filters make a HUGE difference....I can explain why at a later time if anyone is curious) EGR and Oil coolers rarely go bad....and the 03 almost never go bad (sometimes they do though, but usually due to very bad maintance). The EGR valve can create a crank no start, but it will be all the time, not just when cold. It can also make the truck run rough and will blow white smoke.

As for the question on how long you can crank....as long as the battery is good, you can crank on it for about 30-45 seconds without having to worry about frying the starter. If the starter starts to slow down or the noise changes, then stop and charge it...but on 2 good batteries, keep on cranking!

And for the last big question I saw, the cold start issue is probably your GPCM, however, this should have turned your check engine light on as it is considered an emission control device in the PCM. The fact that the reprogram did not help means your GPCM is probably bad. The reprogram mainly changes the programming in the FICM. It adds a heat induction strategy to the spool valve in the injector. The problem is the thick cold oil makes the spool valve stick and cause the truck to run rough or have problems when cold. By heating the spool valve up, it gets the oil right by it warmer and prevents it from sticking. As for the glow plugs, they hardly ever go bad on a 6.0L....maybe one or two, but not enough to create a crank no start when cold. You are probably 95% on the money telling them to check your GPCM....its a shame they couldnt figure that out themselves as its not hard to determine if you have access to a factory scan tool.....

Hope this helps and hopefully I was able to clear a few things up.

Thanks for all the info! Very helpful.

I do use only Ford Motorcraft products and do not cut corners on maintence. All the maintence it’s had has been at a Ford dealer. Now, the truck had 3 previous owners, so who knows what’s been done correctly or not.

When the truck does start (unless it’s already run a good amount that day) it gives off a good puff of white smoke. For a few seconds only and it’s not that thick either. I’ve hear people say there 6.0's never smoke at all and other people say there 6.0's puff white smoke at start up all the time. Once it’s been running for a minute it doesn’t smoke at all. It also runs great once started and warm.

The dealer called today and said it started fine. Which doesn’t help solve the problem, since it’s not cold enough to show the symptoms right now (like it was a week ago). I told them to look at the GP's and GPCM and they seem to think there fine.

So this is annoying. I'll probably pick the truck up tomorrow and wait for it to get cold out at night again (in the next few weeks) and see if it does this again. If it does, I might take it back to my regular dealer and have them look it over again or put in a new GPCM and see if that makes a difference. I might also take it to a different dealer and see what they can do for me. The other dealer im thinking of specializes in trucks and diesels so might be a little more intuitive on the matter.

We'll see how it goes. Thanks for all the input guys!!!!! It really helps :)

[03SVTcobra]

If your EGR valve is slightly stuck open, it can cause a hard start cold and blow a little white smoke. Pop the EGR valve out and look at it...it will be obvious if the valve is slightly hung open. Also, if you FICM is starting to go bad, it could cause the same issues. Same with a bad GPCM....the ford dealer should be able to figure this problem out fairly easily....

[03StrokerF250]

Originally Posted by 03SVTcobra

If your EGR valve is slightly stuck open, it can cause a hard start cold and blow a little white smoke. Pop the EGR valve out and look at it...it will be obvious if the valve is slightly hung open. Also, if you FICM is starting to go bad, it could cause the same issues. Same with a bad GPCM....the ford dealer should be able to figure this problem out fairly easily....

I'll ask them took look at the EGR valve. Would they look at it in this situation without being asked? They also looked at the FICM, TCM, PCM, GPCM, GP's, etc and say they found no codes or problems. Could one of those go bad and not through a code or something?

[03SVTcobra]

Unless they have a code for the EGR valve (P04xx) they probably wont look at it. The FICM wont set a code (P0611 and/or all 8 injector electrical codes) until its completely bad....the best way to check that is with a scan tool that can moniter FICM M_PWR voltage - it should never drop below 45v (Ford Spec), however, if it drops below 47v (sometimes 46.5 is ok) then the FICM is probably on its way out...a good FICM with change between about 47-48v. For the other modules, they probably just ran a self test and looked for continuous memory DTCs....if none came up, they probably stopped there. Most of the time, but not all the time, the GPCM and glow plugs will set codes, but you can always check them (voltage, on time, etc.) with a good scan tool and see what they are actually doing.

[03StrokerF250]

Originally Posted by 03SVTcobra

Unless they have a code for the EGR valve (P04xx) they probably wont look at it. The FICM wont set a code (P0611 and/or all 8 injector electrical codes) until its completely bad....the best way to check that is with a scan tool that can moniter FICM M_PWR voltage - it should never drop below 45v (Ford Spec), however, if it drops below 47v (sometimes 46.5 is ok) then the FICM is probably on its way out...a good FICM with change between about 47-48v. For the other modules, they probably just ran a self test and looked for continuous memory DTCs....if none came up, they probably stopped there. Most of the time, but not all the time, the GPCM and glow plugs will set codes, but you can always check them (voltage, on time, etc.) with a good scan tool and see what they are actually doing.

Thanks for the info and heads up! Very helpful info. Im getting the truck back tomorrow, so we'll see when it get cold again....

[F-25000]

i got my truck back from the dealership today and it turned out to be the ficm. it had an internal short. 1100 dollar bill. not really what i wanted to hear but if it keeps it running im happy

[03StrokerF250]

Hey guys, Today I went to pickup my truck from the dealer after it had been there all week just sitting. It had been starting cold without being plugged for them all week. It was warmish out though.

So, I get there talk to the guy, etc. He goes to get my truck. I wait. Wait. Wait some more. He comes back and says "it wont start". At this point I pretty much laugh Come on The dealer asks if they can keep the truck longer and see what they can do. I agreed ( as if I had a choice). Aparrently it was cold enough last night for it to show is problems. Its going to be cold enough the next week that it will continue to show the problem. So, they should be able to diagnose and fix it now.

So stay tuned for the hopeful conclusion to this fkn debacle. I know I really want to know whats wrong!