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Dieselsite HPOP reservoir adapter

18K views 184 replies 47 participants last post by  bigrpowr 
#1 ·
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#3 ·
it is an adapter for early 99 type hpop's. newer trucks have the screen.
also worth a note... if you mix gaskets from old to new you can crack the housing
 
#4 ·
There is some more interesting reading if you go to dieselsite page.
 
#7 ·
the only advantage i see would be extra oil for the hpop's due to the spacer.
 
#11 ·
I saw it a while back when I was browsing at dieselsite. It looks like a very neat and tidy way to plumb a dual pump setup. Having the screen in there would be good insurance to keep from pump damage or clogged up IPR.
 
#12 ·
I think everyone should keep in mind that Bob is likely one, if not the only guy that has done extensive flowbench testing of all these pumps from everyone. He has actually tested all these pumps on the bench and collected the actual flow data with varying conditions.

Whereas most of us (myself included) have only calculated pump flow and such, he has actually seen it and measured it under all concievable conditions.

And there is definately cause for two IPR valves. Beyond lack of efficiency all the way to complete inability to halt the rise in ICP with a sigle IPR. As in.... totally unplug the valve and you still can't get ICP to stop blowing the pressure relief.
 
#13 ·
A good reminder thread on those gaskets that ruin your front cover if the wrong one gets put in.

Tom
 
#16 ·
What was disproved 3 years ago? That you never had enough operating rpm to need two IPR's yet?

:hehe:


Blast up to 4500rpm and then lift off the throttle as fast or slow as you want......

Notice what your ICP does. Not on a spike, but where it just SITS until the rpm get back down. You can unplug the IPR if you like, won't change anything. It can't physically control the system pressure anymore even wide open.

Now that is extreme. But even at points where the pressure is still within control it is killing the oil by spraying that kind of quantity across that poor little valve at those pressures. It's making an injector out of the IPR. I don't need any front cover oil injection, so I'm going to two IPRs. Except that they will be powered from a proper driver, not half-assed from the PCM circuit.

BTW, I still need one of those IPR blockoff plugs Joey. That and another IPR. I figure I might as well throw some business your way so I can be a part of the termy nation too.

:D
 
#17 ·
What was disproved 3 years ago? That you never had enough operating rpm to need two IPR's yet?

:hehe:


Blast up to 4500rpm and then lift off the throttle as fast or slow as you want......

Notice what your ICP does. Not on a spike, but where it just SITS until the rpm get back down. You can unplug the IPR if you like, won't change anything. It can't physically control the system pressure anymore even wide open.
Now that is extreme. But even at points where the pressure is still within control it is killing the oil by spraying that kind of quantity across that poor little valve at those pressures. It's making an injector out of the IPR. I don't need any front cover oil injection, so I'm going to two IPRs. Except that they will be powered from a proper driver, not half-assed from the PCM circuit.

BTW, I still need one of those IPR blockoff plugs Joey. That and another IPR. I figure I might as well throw some business your way so I can be a part of the termy nation too.

:D
Learn or teach someone how to tune and you won't have that problem.
 
#18 ·
Charles,
Please explain your thoughts on unplugging the IPR, that you've mentioned a couple times now.
When I unplug mine, it deactivates it and leaves it open.
So you're saying even with it 'dead' sitting there open, the oil pressure will still blow the pumps pop-off because not enough oil is getting released?
 
#20 ·
The IPR is a valve that can dump X gallons of oil a minute at a particular pressure. As RPMs rise the gpm output of the pump goes up and then there is a point where the pumps oil flow is greater than what can physically be dumped across an IPR. So the pressure then rises until the blow off valve opens up. Until the RPMs come back down so the oil flow can be controled there ain't no tuning in the world going to fix a mechanical issue.
 
#23 ·
When I unplug mine, it deactivates it and leaves it open.
So you're saying even with it 'dead' sitting there open, the oil pressure will still blow the pumps pop-off because not enough oil is getting released?
That is precisely what I am talking about. I would love to see how someone is going to program around that...

It's not an issue under full power because the injectors are consuming so much. But on light pedal or a lift a single IPR is not capable of effecting system pressure because even in a fully opened state you're still banging out the pump relief valve.

You can't make the IPR handle that with tuning anymore than you can make an AD flow 400mm^3 with tuning.

Put a big pump on a Gen3 and you can overrun the IPR at more common rpm.

Maybe the termy just doesn't move enough oil to see the issue. Sometimes I forget that it displaces less oil.
 
#24 ·
HotRodTractor said:
The IPR is a valve that can dump X gallons of oil a minute at a particular pressure. As RPMs rise the gpm output of the pump goes up and then there is a point where the pumps oil flow is greater than what can physically be dumped across an IPR. So the pressure then rises until the blow off valve opens up. Until the RPMs come back down so the oil flow can be controled there ain't no tuning in the world going to fix a mechanical issue.
Wrong. My pumps on the 95 are shimmed to 4000+psi. And they never exceed that pressure, especially when the throttle is released. Truck doesn't miss a beat and comes right down to idle perfectly. Mind you, the pumps are running at 3850+ @ around 40% DC. Soon I'll be experimenting with 3 pumps(T-3) on 1 IPR. ;)

That is precisely what I am talking about. I would love to see how someone is going to program around that...

It's not an issue under full power because the injectors are consuming so much. But on light pedal or a lift a single IPR is not capable of effecting system pressure because even in a fully opened state you're still banging out the pump relief valve.

Put a big pump on a Gen3 and you can overrun the IPR at more common rpm.

Maybe the termy just doesn't move enough oil to see the issue. Sometimes I forget that it displaces less oil.
Charles, you obviously don't understand how my system is designed, that's ok.;) Even with B code SHO's, it works great. My suggestion would be to contact Jody for further details, as I am not a Tuner, even though I have a Dell Inspiron 6000.;) We move enough oil to feed the largest injector currently on the market, so there is no reason yet to release the T-3 or the T-4.

BTW, my 95 does not exceed 3800 rpms, ever. There's no reason too.
 
#26 ·
As soon as Jody can tune this away he can tune AD's to make 600rwhp.

;)

Do you understand that you can unplug the IPR in this situation and not be able to keep ICP tamed?

Jody can't do anything with IPR control that isn't in my programing. Try and remember that some people never had any stalling issues. Ever.

Some people always had an appropriate IPR refresh setting.

:doh:

I get so tired of hearing about how you and Jody are going to tune around all the hardware issues. When the valve can't dump the volume you can do whatever you want with that cute little PCM and it's still not gonna happen.

That's just all there is to that.
 
#27 ·
As soon as Jody can tune this away he can tune AD's to make 600rwhp.

;)

Do you understand that you can unplug the IPR in this situation and not be able to keep ICP tamed?

Jody can't do anything with IPR control that isn't in my programing.Really? Try and remember that some people never had any stalling issues. The very first ones did and Jody figured it out rather quickly. As IRC, there was a phone call made to TE in the very wee hours(our time) on the Saturday after thanksgiving 2005 that Jody found it while live tuning at our very first Smokin GTG in Gatlinburg. Thanks Hammer!!!! He has full control over the IPR. ;) Ever.

Some people always had an appropriate IPR refresh setting.

:doh:

I get so tired of hearing about how you and Jody are going to tune around all the hardware issues. When the valve can't dump the volume you can do whatever you want with that cute little PCM and it's still not gonna happen.

That's just all there is to that.
NO it's not.....there is always going to be something to find.
 
#33 ·
Diane. What are you going to do to the duty cycle that can equal unplugging the IPR?

What are you going to do to the tuning that can make a valve physically flow more fluid per time?

If you could have the tuning increase orifice flow rates we could all just get your tuning and keep the stock injectors and just have you tune them for 300 or so cc's.

Make sense?

BTW, what does it mean when the same issue happens to people that don't even have a ford PCM on their vehicles anywhere? Does that mean the physical problems just need to be addressed by Jody in the tuning of the unit sitting in the bottom of the trashcan. Or does it still mean that the IPR is simply to small to dump enough volume flow to allow ICP to be controlled? Funny how adding a second IPR brings the duty cycle right back up off 7% and allows the ICP to stay manageable.

Why don't you just get him to "tune" the stock charger for around 800rwhp while he's in there. And for a little icing on the cake, have him "tune" it to be reliable at that level to, since apparently there is no hardware limitation that you cannot fix with an EEPROM flash.

:lookaround:


We should compile a list of some other hardware issues for Jody to "tune" for us.

Maybe some of this:

- Injector flow rate
- Head port size and shape
- Fuel delivery pump flow rate
- Turbocharger inducer diameter
- Turbine housing size and A/R
- Headgasket rigidity
- Head clamp force
- Rod strength
- Block strength


so on.... and so forth.

Work on some of that while you are onto the subject of tuning hardware to do what it physically can't.

Oky Doky?

:D
 
#35 ·
Not trying to "slam" or anything. I just get irritated when people act like they can tune something that is outside of the physical capability of the hardware itself.

But, for all I know Jody may have run across some tables in the PCM labeled "Metaphysical".

In that case, lets find the one labeled power output and just turn it up and skip all this other nonsense.

;)
 
#39 ·
heres an idea for serious oil, you install a set of terms, and then install the bts pump on top now you have 3 pumps and maybe 3 1/2 pumps cause the 2nd bts pump is different. as far as an ipr who needs one LOL
 
#40 ·
Jason, your inline pump system is unlike mine. Most believe they are the same, but assure you they are not in more ways then one.

You could always add a third IPR?

Somewhere in the past, Catdiesel had some interesting info on the amount of oil dumped by the IPR on the Caterpillar system. They use a much larger displacement pump and have no problem controlling it. Maybe he will chime in with his expertise. :shrug:

Eitherway, I'm sticking with what works for me.
 
#48 ·
You need information on pump displacement and pump RPM to compare on a level playing field. I would welcome that data.

And yes I know the pumps are different. I have what I have and it works for me doing what I am doing with it currently. I will soon be replacing it with a BIG single to help me reach some of my goals in showing what can be done with some creativity and outside the box thinking to the PSD. My current motor has got nothing on the new setup that I am putting together. It just takes time, money , and a desire to prove that the HEUI system can work.
 
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