Diesel Power Fest at The Buck - May 9th, 09

Is anyone going?

when is it? I never been there but looking to go sounds like fun!

i'll be there, planning on doing drag racing, i'll be the one with the red supeduty and banged up bed

i wouldn normally be there but ill be at ts... ill make the other 3

Hope no one with a 7.3 goes there and tries to compete. Their rules are a complete joke for anything but a goddanmed duramax.

when is it? I never been there but looking to go sounds like fun!

Its this saturday. I'm not 100% sure on the time maybe somebody can help me out...

everything starts at 7... usually u have to register the truck by 5pm or so... maybe 530 pm

sounds right, heading down with the convoy early afternoon

cool I hope it doesn't get rained out I'd like to meet some of you guys

I am going! whats the fus about the rules for 7.3?

i think he just mean that because the rules require a stock turbo to be used, with the duramax having efi live, they can crank a whole lot more power out of their stock system. the 7.3 just doesn't have that ability with the stock turbo. the rules are against us i guess

well that suck ass! thats alot of crap! thats why i like lebanon! thats going to be the chit!

ya, when we go there with a 7.3 we are pretty much bringing a knife to a gun fight the way they word their rules.

I'll be there!! prolly just do show and shine, i can have 8 turbos for that marty:poke:

I'll be there!! prolly just do show and shine, i can have 8 turbos for that marty:poke:

thats what i am doing show and shine!:doh:

i think he just mean that because the rules require a stock turbo to be used, with the duramax having efi live, they can crank a whole lot more power out of their stock system. the 7.3 just doesn't have that ability with the stock turbo. the rules are against us i guess

hes referring to the fact that they made him pull modified class with just a drop in turbo (38r)... 05 duramaxs come stock with almost a 2.5 size turbo from the factory... which is close to a modded h2e for us?


plus drag racing is only stock turbo as well...

the problem with the buck is they got techs that dont know what they are lookin at... modified turbos and larger turbos can be hidden from those guys pretty easily

:doh:will thats good! and they call them techs!LOL

Hope no one with a 7.3 goes there and tries to compete. Their rules are a complete joke for anything but a goddanmed duramax.

easy killer :eek:

i think he just mean that because the rules require a stock turbo to be used, with the duramax having efi live, they can crank a whole lot more power out of their stock system. the 7.3 just doesn't have that ability with the stock turbo. the rules are against us i guess

its hard to tech a duramax turbo, so they can hide turbo size easily

will they pull your intake off and chack inlet or go by your word?

if it looks stock... your good... most of the time... in your case... you wont be drag racing lmao

will they pull your intake off and chack inlet or go by your word?

WELL IF THERE SMART THEY WILL:poke:

Pulling i mean, i know bout the racing part:pointlaugh:

will they pull your intake off and chack inlet or go by your word?

they took my word. But I watched them check some of the cummins guys.
That was in 07, and I have'nt pulled there since.

They dont wanna climb up in the engine compartment. LMAO

And you won didnt you?

I won't be going unless I can get a ride my truck is broken down again... :(

Hope no one with a 7.3 goes there and tries to compete. Their rules are a complete joke for anything but a goddanmed duramax.


so its safe to assume you wont be there to compete in the modified class at any of the other events.

if you think its tough to compete at the buck then wait til you watch the 2.6 street class at TS...i know of one truck thats making 900hp on a single 2.6 legal charger.

:bowfast:

I won't be going unless I can get a ride my truck is broken down again... :(

where u at? fawn grove? shrewsbury?

so its safe to assume you wont be there to compete in the modified class at any of the other events.

if you think its tough to compete at the buck then wait til you watch the 2.6 street class at TS...i know of one truck thats making 900hp on a single 2.6 legal charger.

It's tough for any 7.3 to compete anywhere because of the size charger needed.

how come other trucks can run just fine on 2.6 chargers...whats so special about the 7.3 that it needs such a massive turbo to run with 2.6 trucks? im not talking stock turbo, im talking 2.6 aftermarket turbos.

yea stock turbo rule its tough to compete with the duramax...hell i dont know any 2nd gen and very few 3rd gen trucks that can hang in the stock turbo class.

1 it's not a common rail, Durasmack is
2 more cubes needs more air

how come other trucks can run just fine on 2.6 chargers...whats so special about the 7.3 that it needs such a massive turbo to run with 2.6 trucks? im not talking stock turbo, im talking 2.6 aftermarket turbos.

yea stock turbo rule its tough to compete with the duramax...hell i dont know any 2nd gen and very few 3rd gen trucks that can hang in the stock turbo class.

RPM's and displacement.

Fueling beyond 3k rpm's specifically.

When you make 1400+ ft/lbs in 1800 rpms it tends to break things in a V8 design.

You would be HARD pressed to see 550 rwhp on fuel only out of a 2.6 on a powerstroke.

so you are telling me that because it lacks fuel you need a bigger turbo to compete...

there are vp44 trucks that are competitive in 2.6, they arent a common rail.

complaining about being handicapped in the power department yet now you are saying that the 7.3 makes too much tq to stay together.

im confused here. you modify things, big injectors, bigger HEUI parts for more fuel, and can't get a custom 2.6 charger to make power. i find that hard to believe because 2 days ago a 2.6 charger made 900+hp on fuel only, im sure a charger that can do that on a 5.9 can make over 550 on a 7.3.

where u at? fawn grove? shrewsbury?

Im in new park right outside fawn grove

Im in new park right outside fawn grove

near the grain mill?

so you are telling me that because it lacks fuel you need a bigger turbo to compete...

there are vp44 trucks that are competitive in 2.6, they arent a common rail.

complaining about being handicapped in the power department yet now you are saying that the 7.3 makes too much tq to stay together.

im confused here. you modify things, big injectors, bigger HEUI parts for more fuel, and can't get a custom 2.6 charger to make power. i find that hard to believe because 2 days ago a 2.6 charger made 900+hp on fuel only, im sure a charger that can do that on a 5.9 can make over 550 on a 7.3.

Vp44 trucks also have far less displacement and do not have the HEUI injection system handi-capping them.

You're confused because you don't understand why the PCM/IDM/Injector setup in a Powerstroke is EXACTLY why you don't see them being the dominating force at any diesel event.

There's just no replacement for a mechanically injected setup.

Constant fuel is there! not the pcm or idm wiich i dont know telling the inj. "hey spit fuel out waitfor it wait for it.....NOW

Constant fuel is there! not the pcm or idm wiich i dont know telling the inj. "hey spit fuel out waitfor it wait for it.....NOW

Huh? LOL

i don't know all electronic motors do it like that but in the early days not many had them, none in 1994 i dont think? i could be wrong. mech 7.3's ftw



















also winning the lottery FTW. lmao

Vp44 trucks also have far less displacement and do not have the HEUI injection system handi-capping them.

You're confused because you don't understand why the PCM/IDM/Injector setup in a Powerstroke is EXACTLY why you don't see them being the dominating force at any diesel event.

There's just no replacement for a mechanically injected setup.

I thought the old saying was there is no replacement for displacement, but now it hurts you?

you are just contradicting yourself. you said the stock turbo rule prevents a 7.3 from being competitive, it has nothing do with the turbo now, its the fueling system that isnt up to the task.

VP44, and common rail cummins and dmaxes...not mechanical injection, its electronic.

you are allowed to build the fuel system with big oil pumps and injectors, and can run any turbo up to a 2.8 at the buck, this isnt the midwest, 550-600hp is competitive in the modified street class, there are 2.6 and 2.8 turbos out there that will do that, even on the larger displacement 7.3. if the larger dispacement was really so bad then why are there 7.1L stroker kits for the dmax, and cummins went to the larger 6.7 when they needed to maintain the same power output but lower emissions.

for the record i am not trying to start an argument here, im just playing devils advocate, and learning some things at the same time.

Dam* ole ford computers aint marty
get a link up or somrthing telling about the injection/combustion process of the heui injected diesels, thanks

Huh? LOL

This is what Ford Motor Co. calls a Hydraulic Electronic Unit Injection system, or HEUI system. The control system for the fuel injectors is the PCM and the injectors are fired based on various inputs received by the PCM.

near the grain mill?
yeah I'm on watters road. off 851. I think I might be getting a rental car so I may just take that.

I see

http://www.diesel-central.com/News/oil_pump.htm

I thought the old saying was there is no replacement for displacement, but now it hurts you?

you are just contradicting yourself. you said the stock turbo rule prevents a 7.3 from being competitive, it has nothing do with the turbo now, its the fueling system that isnt up to the task.

VP44, and common rail cummins and dmaxes...not mechanical injection, its electronic.

you are allowed to build the fuel system with big oil pumps and injectors, and can run any turbo up to a 2.8 at the buck, this isnt the midwest, 550-600hp is competitive in the modified street class, there are 2.6 and 2.8 turbos out there that will do that, even on the larger displacement 7.3. if the larger dispacement was really so bad then why are there 7.1L stroker kits for the dmax, and cummins went to the larger 6.7 when they needed to maintain the same power output but lower emissions.

for the record i am not trying to start an argument here, im just playing devils advocate, and learning some things at the same time.

It's cool, I'll teach you.

The rules for "stock turbo" class you understand. The factory 7.3 turbo is weak, junk, and basically old potatoes when compared to the newer trucks with much larger stock turbos and VGT setups.

The rules for modified are a little better, but still 7.3's are at a major disadvantage because once you Cummins or dmax guys get to this point you are not making ALL of your power at or below 2800 rpm's like we're forced to. With the larger cubes we're also forced to have larger turbo's to make the same power.

Commonrail is nothing like the HEUI system, and even though there is a ceiling that they hit just like the HEUI system... it's MUCH higher. Comparing the HEUI to the Commonrail injection system is not apples to apples.


As for 7.3s globally (TS/Sheid/etc)... you have Fuel + Air + Oil to worry about. Now add to that the huge monetary undertaking it is to make a 7.3 capable of living at 600+ hp and suddenly most anyone interested in building a 7.3 decides better of it. Additionally - making peak power around 2800rpms and having power drop off exponentially there after verse trucks that will spin out 5, 6 or 7k (or beyond) just doesn't lend itself to sled pulling domination.

No contradictions were made in my statements; they just need to be applied as intended which admittedly is hard to follow with text on the forum.

The replacement for displacement is technology, whether new or old.

As for 7.3s globally (TS/Sheid/etc)... you have Fuel + Air + Oil to worry about. Now add to that the huge monetary undertaking it is to make a 7.3 capable of living at 600+ hp and suddenly most anyone interested in building a 7.3 decides better of it. Additionally - making peak power around 2800rpms and having power drop off exponentially there after verse trucks that will spin out 5, 6 or 7k (or beyond) just doesn't lend itself to sled pulling domination.

I make peak power at 2800 and it drops off ater that too :D

and we are talking 2.6-2.8 trucks, not mod trucks, not many 2.8 trucks turn over 5k, some out in the midwest do it, but they aren't making much power up there.

PS-i know the Ferd Killa gets you guys all fired up, but you should find out the facts before putting things in your sig like that...he might surprise you LOL

I make peak power at 2800 and it drops off ater that too :D

and we are talking 2.6-2.8 trucks, not mod trucks, not many 2.8 trucks turn over 5k, some out in the midwest do it, but they aren't making much power up there.

PS-i know the Ferd Killa gets you guys all fired up, but you should find out the facts before putting things in your sig like that...he might surprise you LOL

Fact is that my motor currently makes more power then his.

:popcorn:

I'm trying to get down there this Saturday.

It's cool, I'll teach you.

The rules for "stock turbo" class you understand. The factory 7.3 turbo is weak, junk, and basically old potatoes when compared to the newer trucks with much larger stock turbos and VGT setups.

How does the 38r factor into the equation, for this class? How much difference in size are we talking about?

The rules for modified are a little better, but still 7.3's are at a major disadvantage because once you Cummins or dmax guys get to this point you are not making ALL of your power at or below 2800 rpm's like we're forced to. With the larger cubes we're also forced to have larger turbo's to make the same power.

I've read this for 20 minutes and really can't get my head around your point. How does the RPM issue factor in with the cubes and create the need for the 7.3 to need a larger charger?

Commonrail is nothing like the HEUI system, and even though there is a ceiling that they hit just like the HEUI system... it's MUCH higher. Comparing the HEUI to the Commonrail injection system is not apples to apples.


As for 7.3s globally (TS/Sheid/etc)... you have Fuel + Air + Oil to worry about. Now add to that the huge monetary undertaking it is to make a 7.3 capable of living at 600+ hp and suddenly most anyone interested in building a 7.3 decides better of it. Additionally - making peak power around 2800rpms and having power drop off exponentially there after verse trucks that will spin out 5, 6 or 7k (or beyond) just doesn't lend itself to sled pulling domination.

I'm with you on the last two paragraphs, my question would be twofold, what is the reason for the 7.3 to need to make peak hp at 2800 RPM's (I have suspicions), and if the 5.9 (I use only the 5.9 because T.J. is involved) looses power about 2800, why can the 5.9 make modifictaions to allow it to work and the 7.3 can't?

No contradictions were made in my statements; they just need to be applied as intended which admittedly is hard to follow with text on the forum.

The replacement for displacement is technology, whether new or old.


I'd like to expand on my second thought for a moment. In my mind, there is an equation of what a motor needs to runn efficently in regards to fuel/air/time. I can understand, different motors, different combustion chambers, different turbos, fuel delievery all affect the equation. But how much difference is there between a 600hp 7.3 and 600 hp 5.9 in regards to the quantity of air being required to make that hp? It seems (again, I have no idea what I'm speaking about in regards to the specifics of these two) that no matter what engine being discussed, the amount of air required to make the power would be much larger than the "stock" motor. As such shouldn't the required air be somewhat close, in terms of cubic inches, or centimeters if your a Canadian?

I don't really know what I am talking about either. So my thoughts may sound dumb, but I was thinking it is all directly related to our inferior style of injection system. From what I can tell, we use very large injectors that push a lot of fuel at a very slow rate(in comparison to other injection systems). Large quantities of fuel pushed out slowly is going to cause a lot of heat, and smoke. This is where the excessive size turbo is needed to clean up these very smokey, hot running injectors. I may be completely wrong, just throwing my thoughts out there. Any thoughts on that?

How does the 38r factor into the equation, for this class? How much difference in size are we talking about?

Even though it's better then stock, it's still not going to put you ahead of the competitions stock turbos. Stock turbo LBZ can make 500+ with EFI. For a 7.3 to even dream of placing there, a 38R and some 238/250 injectors are required.


I've read this for 20 minutes and really can't get my head around your point. How does the RPM issue factor in with the cubes and create the need for the 7.3 to need a larger charger?

RPM and wheel speed are very important factors. 2800 RPM's just won't cut it. With larger displacement you need more air volume to fill the cylinders just to ignite the fuel. You put a 2.6 charger (38R) even with the biggest turbine housing (1.15) on a powerstroke and you would be very hard pressed to ever see 550 rwhp on fuel only (probably never happen) however if you put a 2.6 with the same housings/wheels on a 5.9 you can see 550+ without an issue. They need less air volume to fill the cylinders because of the smaller displacement. Also you're filling two heads instead of one with a v8 vs I6 design.


I'm with you on the last two paragraphs, my question would be twofold, what is the reason for the 7.3 to need to make peak hp at 2800 RPM's (I have suspicions), and if the 5.9 (I use only the 5.9 because T.J. is involved) looses power about 2800, why can the 5.9 make modifictaions to allow it to work and the 7.3 can't?


The 7.3 makes peak power naturally around 2800 rpm's because it can't make peak power beyond that unless you delay peak power which sacrifices total power. This is a whole nother concept. Electronics are a nice thing, but are the hold up with the 7.3. Put a mechanical pump on it and no longer have the limits of the HEUI system.

12v 5.9 can fuel beyond 2800 no problem. 24v CR can fuel beyond 2800 no problem as well.

http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=57365995

Cool. Looks like my friend Mikes truck.

that guy is from around here and its pretty bada**.. I think Dom knows him..

I'm not on myspace, can't see the vid. WTF? Is it the guy with the special 03 blue color CC SB? If it is he's from West Grove. I believe 190's, EGR delete, 4" lift 35x12.50 stock rims, Eric's tunes. Was talking about putting NOS on it.

His mechanic was originally the one who was going to do my motor removal/installation, until I couldn't nail them down on when they could do it. So I PM'd Maintain, now I'm in is Fan Club - Lifetime Member

If its not the blue truck, dunno.

yes its the blue truck...anthony was his name.. 4 inch lift 35's and sonic blue

yes its the blue truck...anthony was his name.. 4 inch lift 35's and sonic blue

Yup, Anthony. Is there any way someone get that vid on you tube, and post it? I'm curious to sse what's he's done with it.

Do they make a 08 in that color?

I want that truck..or atleast one in that color

they have these things called paint booths... cheaper then buyinga new truck... most of the time lol

they have these things called paint booths... cheaper then buyinga new truck... most of the time lol

LOLLOLLOL

I do autobody..I know..

when and where?

when and where?

Here bud, this is the link to the proper thread. Your in an old thread right now... but the buck is having their powerfest tonight at 7pm in quarryville pa... not far from lancaster pennsylvania or above the md state line... i live in dundalk and its about an hour and 20 min from me... worth the ride... let us know if youll be up there by posting in the thread liunked below

Diesel Power Fest - Powerstroke Nation (http://powerstrokenation.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33645&highlight=buck)