Does Anyone make a better steering box

For our OBS trucks, besides the A1 Cardone, or Fenco Remans? I put a Reman on the truck a few months ago, and it's already sloppier than the one I took off. I checked another reman we had on the shelf and it was sloppy right out of the gate.

I don't particularly like doing this job, and would really not care to do it a third time LOL, I'm willing to pay a little more for a quality box! Any suggestions?

When the time comes I'm sending mine to these guys (http://www.redheadsteeringgears.com/). Have heard many good thing about the quality of their rebuilds.

hydrosteering (http://westtexasoffroad.homestead.com/hydrosteering.html)

RedHead steering box is the only option IMO if your looking to replace it.

hydrosteering (http://westtexasoffroad.homestead.com/hydrosteering.html)

I'm not running huge tires, I have no need for a hydro set up, I just want the truck to drive like it did about 14 years ago :)

Has anyone used the AGR stuff? I like the idea of the RedHead, but the AGR is in stock@ Summit, and I can't put the truck down for a week+

I don't particularly like doing this job, and would really not care to do it a third time LOL, I'm willing to pay a little more for a quality box! Any suggestions?

Reread what you said. RedHead and done.

LOL, anyone have a core box I can send them?

Call them. They may have one already and you can possibly send your core in after.

Has anyone used the AGR stuff?

Yep,...... ;)

I'll send you a PM.

Money Sent Keith!
Thanks!

Well just a couple of months looks like the used AGR box is crap too! I guess the old saying holds true, If you can't afford to do it right, you sure as hell can't afford to do it twice! Making the call to Redhead Monday!

so how good are thses and do they get rid of the 2-3 inch slop in the wheel?

From all I've been told, Red Head is supposed to be the best. I purchased a used AGR box, which felt a little loose the day it was put on, and just progressively worse since then.

If you read about the Red Head boxes they explain some of the stuff they do differently than everyone else. From reading on some the of desert racer and sand dune gang forums, they all swear by Red Head

so how good are thses and do they get rid of the 2-3 inch slop in the wheel?

:whs::whs::whs:

I bought i reman box from napa it was pretty sloppy from the get go... but im also running big tires

Its like this--
I run 315's. When i bought the truck it had a "new reman" in it, the kid said it was just replaced under warranty. This box lasted a week of driving back and forth to the mechanics shop to fix little stuff. I put another warranty one it it, and that lasted another month of driving.
I said enough is enough and put a redhead in it. No slop, positive steering feel, and it has lasted through two years of plowing snow, mudding, hauling stone, concrete, pulling bushes, wheeling, you name it.
If I can't brake it, its a damn good part.

I am still a little shy of the cash needed for the redhead box, but from all I've read, it's not worth the effort to throw another reman at it. And I'll damn sure never buy another "AGR box that was only on the truck for a couple thousand miles" It was within a bill of the Redhead box.

Live and learn I guess!

How about a NEW ford one?

:popcorn:

So I have a rebuild seal kit for my steering box as it's leaking somewhere....thinking where the sector shaft (think thats what it's called) exits the box. So does anyone know where you could get internal re-built parts such as the piston and little ball bearings from? Have not searched at all just wondering is someone has done this?

@ Brad, I've contemplated a new ford box, but was told that there are no "new" castings left. RedHead is the only people I've talked to that can actually tell me why their box is any bettter than anyone else's. Everyone's testament that owns a Red Head box, backs up what they say. They priced the box for 270$ and 30$ ship, I'm thinking the Ford Reman box was close to 400$, So I guess the Redhead will be the next route!

@Jcart
Somewhere in my searching, I've seen a supplier for hard internal parts, although according to RedHead one reason their box is better is the fact that have a few different oversized bearings, that tighten up their boxes. If I find the link I had I'll pm it to you.

So does anyone know where you could get internal re-built parts ?

don't waste your time it's not easy IMHO I tried it on a saginaw and finally took it to Benchwerks and paid them ,,money well spent those frigging recirc balls are a nightmare lol

Thanks loudmouth and Zmann,

Have already got the full gasket kit and was thinking while it's apart may as well replace hard parts if needed. It's a spare box so the notion was to R&R it and put ports in it for hydraulic assist just for giggles...then throw it on the sig truck as that one is leaking (least the PS fluid is always clean...)

Done a bunch o web rooting about but any links would be appreciated.
I feel kinda silly askin but what is the brand name/model of our stock boxes are they a Saginaw?:o:o: My parts guy knows my truck so when I order the parts he just got er done....and I never thought to ask.

Thanx guys

To the best of my knowledge it is a Saginaw manufactured box. I've become so disgusted with the steering issues, That's what has led me to Redhead.

RedHead custom rebuilds each box. The ball races in each box wear differently, based on age, usage, heat, fluid maintenance, etc. They measure the ball races and fit recirculating balls to precisely fit them; they have a whole slew of ball sizes in very small increments. The result is a very precise feel. Our RCLB truck has a RedHead box and a Flaming River shaft and u-joints on the RCLB. The ECLB has a FLAPS-Reman (Dorman?) box and OEM shaft with the glorified rag joint just above the box. Steering in the RCLB is MUCH better. So yeah, along with a RedHead, look into a new shaft, or at least new U-joints, including getting rid of that god-awful rag joint (d@mn thing looks so 1956....).

After reading all the reviews about red head, I went ahead and ordered one. It was $256 w/ $85 core, $32 (postal service) shipping.

After reading all the reviews about red head, I went ahead and ordered one. It was $256 w/ $85 core, $32 (postal service) shipping.

Thats not bad. Let us know how it works, my 97 is a lil sloppy

Will do.

I'm still a little shy of the cash to order the Red Head box, but it is next. I've already been through the crap of the factory lower shaft. I put a Borgeson shaft in when I put in this "great deal" of a used AGR box.

Is the shaft something that should be done at the same time, or is the box usually the problem?

I'm still a little shy of the cash to order the Red Head box, but it is next. Don't worry; they're square dealers at RedHead. $32 shipping is just an unfortunate consequence of the fact that it's an effing heavy gearbox.

I've already been through the crap of the factory lower shaft. I put a Borgeson shaft in when I put in this "great deal" of a used AGR box. Did the Borgeson shaft include replacing the glorified Depression-era rag-joint with a real u-joint?

Been thinking about the rag joint, what if you made a sandwich with the stock rag material and say a piece of UHMW 5mm thick? This material is very robust yet flexible plus you'd have to stocker there for back up. Thinking the UHMW would provide maybe better steering response as it's less likely to distort (rotational wise) but will still flex between box and steering shaft.

jrc

I finally ordered my Redhead box yesterday! As far as the shaft, I noticed a lot of play not only at the rag joint, but also in the slip section. The Borgeson, puts a sealed U Joint at both ends. the only way to travel by far!

I can't wait to see how it drives and handles after new springs, pivot bushings, Redhead box, all new XRF steering, and 4 new Bilsteins.

I finally ordered my Redhead box yesterday! As far as the shaft, I noticed a lot of play not only at the rag joint, but also in the slip section. The Borgeson, puts a sealed U Joint at both ends. the only way to travel by far!

I can't wait to see how it drives and handles after new springs, pivot bushings, Redhead box, all new XRF steering, and 4 new Bilsteins.

Cool take pix and let us know how you make out....hope you're putting new bushings on the shackles in the frame too...

jrc

Yes, I have Poly shackle bushings, and Pivot bushings. The Redhead box came in today, the shocks should be here Monday. Maybe I'll be able to start on it next Saturday!

how much play do you have in your stocker vs the new one? I have about 2-3 inches of slop in the wheel on mine right now and need to fix it.

That's about what I had in mine before I did the springs, pivot, and shackle bushings today. I still haven't had a chance to do the steering box as I ran out of time and didn't have a pitman arm puller with me today. I will say the pivot bushings and new springs/bushings made a BIG dent in my steering issues, but there is still a couple inches slop in the steering box. Maybe one night this week I'll get the box and rear shocks put on.

ok let me know :)

RedHead all the way. NO COMPARISON to the stock box or the "1k mile use AGR" Truck drives like it did the way it left the lot in '97.

As was said earlier in this thread "Redhead and done" I agree with that statement no questions asked!

RedHead all the way. NO COMPARISON to the stock box or the "1k mile use AGR" Truck drives like it did the way it left the lot in '97.

As was said earlier in this thread "Redhead and done" I agree with that statement no questions asked!

Good to know! Thanks for posting.

FINALY got the red head installed and my goodness did it make a huge difference!!!! Half the clunking and popping noises I was having are completely gone. The truck steers great, the bump steer is gone, and thank God the 1/4 of a turn of slop in the wheel is gone aswell.
My hat is off to the folks over there at Red Head! Amazing product. I would recommend this to any one.

Thanks for the info guess i better order mine :) how much of a pain was the install?

Honestly I don't know. I tried like hell for a day to get the pitman arm off, with no luck. I tried heating it up, oiling it over night and several different pulleys and still nothing. I Finaly said screw it because a local shop quoted me $120 to do the swap for me.

Humm

They are pretty easy to change......provided the pitman arm comes off!
I took the opportunity to switch over to ATF while I still had one line off and flushed new atf through the system.

This is very interesting I bought my truck with 375k and it was pretty sloppy including the column that was so worn the bearing races were missing into metal filings. But after I rebuilt the column I just resealed the box and retorqued the sector shaft to the factory spec. My truck now has 420k and I haven't had a problem since

When I do mine, I plan on buying a new pitman arm. About the same price as a good puller with a lot less frustration.

Rusty

Honestly I don't know. I tried like hell for a day to get the pitman arm off, with no luck. I tried heating it up, oiling it over night and several different pulleys and still nothing. I Finaly said screw it because a local shop quoted me $120 to do the swap for me.

When that happens, I take a cut off tool and cut 3/4 of the way thru the pitman arm and put a chisel in the cut. One hit and it falls off

ordered mine :)
how do you retorq the selector? and to what spec?
ATF or PS fliud??

You talking bout the pitman nut? Really damn tight is the spec I used! There is no adjustment needed when installing the new box.

Good to know Brad, thanks!

sector shaft for the trans?

FINALY got the red head installed and my goodness did it make a huge difference!!!! Half the clunking and popping noises I was having are completely gone. The truck steers great, the bump steer is gone, and thank God the 1/4 of a turn of slop in the wheel is gone aswell.My hat is off to the folks over there at Red Head! Amazing product. I would recommend this to any one.

This sounds like my truck. I am encouraged that a Redhead box will do the same for me. Thanks for posting this!

Rusty

You are welcome.

should have mine here next week :0)

Cratos :

Please list the guages and source for them. I am starting the project of my F 350 and intend putting many guages. So far, leaning toward the autometer. Is anything better??
Foxman

Autometer sport comp 2 (I have always liked Autometers.)
trans temp
water temp
oil temp
pyro
oil pressure
fuel pressure
boost

got it on last night I guess it needs an alinemaent to get the steering wheel lined back up. it did gte rid of the slop,
I had to un ajust the old one to get the pitman arm puller to go on.to remove it.

got it on last night I guess it needs an alinemaent to get the steering wheel lined back up. it did gte rid of the slop,
I had to un ajust the old one to get the pitman arm puller to go on.to remove it.

You should be able to center your steering wheel by adjusting the drag link.

That depends, if he's still ttb, then you can't just adjust the drag link.

alinement shop did it .:)

Ordered my Redhead last Monday. After driving back from my JW E4OD install and bobbing and weaving through the canyon east of Moreno Valley on the 60 Freeway, I decided in was money well spent sooner than later. I will take pics of the install with the Borgeson steering shaft. Hopefully fixes a lot of the clunks and bumpsteer issues that I have. Thank you for all of the info.

Rusty

when i did mine to pulled and drained the cooler line an rainded the pump ( turning it by hand ) so I would have all new fluid in it for the new pump.hardest part was gettng the pittman arm off, ended up having to un a just the old box to get the shaft out enough to get the puler on it.

This was waiting for me when I got home from work today. Now just have to find time to get it installed. I have a new pitman arm and a Borgeson steering shaft to go in with it.

Rusty

This was waiting for me when I got home from work today. Now just have to find time to get it installed. I have a new pitman arm and a Borgeson steering shaft to go in with it.

Rusty

Gonna do a write up with pics or vid? :ford: I'm gonna have to do this soon too.. Would love to see some of the disaster I'll be walking in to :doh:

I'm gonna do my best. Just need to find some time to get it done.

Rusty

Just send it to me, I'll install it on my truck and let you know if it was worth it.

Just send it to me, I'll install it on my truck and let you know if it was worth it.

LOL

im with redhead!!! stout box

Do they offer optional assist ratios? My steering is tight, but it feels as if they is too much assist for my usage/feeling.

Cory

If anyone can I'm sure it's these guys! Just call em

Gonna do a write up with pics or vid? :ford: I'm gonna have to do this soon too.. Would love to see some of the disaster I'll be walking in to :doh:

Got it done this morning with the Borgeson steering shaft, no disasters or big issues. 2-1/2 hours start to finish and would have been faster if I had figured out the Borgeson install quicker/called for tech support sooner.......haha. In a time crunch so didn't get any pictures but it does drive and steer better, about half of the clunks are gone as well as most of the bump steer. I've only driven it 5 miles or so to check everything out and so far so good. The rag joint on the steering shaft is a scary design, I feel a lot better with the Borgeson shaft in there. I had to cut about 5" off of the Borgeson shaft to have it fit properly, no big deal with a hacksaw.

Rusty

Just ran a few more errands to shake this thing down. It drives much better and I think my turning radius is tighter. I always back into my driveway and the turning radius improvement was obvious there. After 203,000 miles, this was a definite improvement and well worth the money to make sure this things steers safely.

Rusty

Tell me more about cutting the borgeson shaft. Mine was TIGHT to fit in, actually dropped the colum to get it together. Mine did not come with any instructions. I was first worried about the length, when I compared it to the length of my stock shaft, it didn't seem much longer when fully collapsed. What did they have to say about it?

My shaft didn't come with instructions either. I tried to install it and ran into the same problem that you did. I ended up calling Borgeson and spoke to Gil and he made up for the lack of instructions in the box. He explained the procedure very well and was extremely patient with me. The shaft telescopes so that in the event of an accident, the steering wheel doesn't get shoved into your face. Out of the box, my shaft was fully retracted and wouldn't get any shorter. There is a rubber boot that is held on by a tie wrap where the inner and outer parts of the shaft meet. A set screw is there, too, to prevent the shaft from pulling apart. I loosend this screw and the shaft extended, when you set it for installation you don't want it fully extended. You want it about 2" shy of full extension and snug the set screw down but don't fully tighten it. Now, remove the u-joint from the steering wheel end of the shaft, there are two set screws and one is longer than the other and needs to be completely removed the shorter one just needs to be loosened. Measure for the correct length and cut the shaft, 5" in my case, and redrill the hole for that longer set screw. Once you see it for yourself it will make sense. Install the shaft, sans the u-joint, from the engine compartment side and make the connection at the steering box, then make the connection under the dash and tighten all of the set screws and lock nuts.

I hope this makes sense to you. If anything is unclear please ask me, or give Gil a call.

Rusty

(Oops, missed the updates to this thread.) ^^^^ That's pretty-much how the Flaming River shaft works too. I reckon all the better aftermarket shafts are telescoping, to account for various forms of lift, different steering box dimensions, varying conditions of cab mounts, etc.

As for the assist question, that's more a function of the p/s pump, no? I've heard of some fellas who find a way to ream out the fitting on the high-pressure line, to allow more fluid flow for more assist. But I agree, I think I'd have better road feel with _less_ assist. I wonder if you could fab in some step-down, step-up adapters on the fitting where the high-pressure line goes into the pump, to have the effect of restricting fluid flow and thus reducing the assist. :shrug:

As for the assist question, that's more a function of the p/s pump, no? I've heard of some fellas who find a way to ream out the fitting on the high-pressure line, to allow more fluid flow for more assist. But I agree, I think I'd have better road feel with _less_ assist. I wonder if you could fab in some step-down, step-up adapters on the fitting where the high-pressure line goes into the pump, to have the effect of restricting fluid flow and thus reducing the assist. :shrug:

interesting idea madpogue, on my '96 I increased the orifice size on the high pressure line by one or iirc two drill bit sizes over the stock orifice and it did change the feel in terms of steering effort (i.e., less effort). My understanding is if you open up the line too big there will be no steering feed back and it'll steer like an old caddy with no feed back.

jrc

I think CumminsTrader is looking for _less_ assist (_more_ effort).

Correct I think it already feels like an old Caddy.....lol

Cory

just read the whole thread. I have a clunking noise and three to four inches of play in the wheel. When i grab the shaft down near the slip joint theres a ton of play. And when i turn the wheel left and right when the trucks running or off thats when i hear the clunk. or when i hit a pot hole. So do i get a redhead box and Borgeson shaft? Its about 600 to do both? Cant swing it right now. Wish i could, but im in the marine business and its 30 degrees out lol.

Pull the plastic cover up off the joint at the steering box, have someone work te wheel why you watch it, you'll see where te majority of your play is, you can make your decision accordingly

Its not sloppy under the cover. Its sloppy where the "slip joint" is...

Its not sloppy under the cover. Its sloppy where the "slip joint" is...

Very common. What I did was remove steering shaft and using a flat chisel and hammer on an anvil, reshape the slip joint "grove" so it snugs up against the inner shaft. Some guys have done it on the truck with an air hammer. While others have replaced the shaft with new.

I have been thinking I might make a new rag joint using UHMW (like nylon cutting board but much stronger) and/or Lexan in conjunction with stock rag joint to see it this might improve steering in put, just stack them together. My thinking is, this will reduce the flex of the rag joint and improve steering feel.

Why cant you replace the rag joint with a universal joint like used in race car shafts?